Some Info about Community Relations

[1 up and 2 down]

The reason for buffs for skills that no one uses is probably an attempt to try and get them some play time.

Diablo I like your Idea of Representative Democracy, kudos to you!

[Voltar]

for an example of a bad dev team, hook up with swg. one of the few things that i liked from them was that there were volunteer positions in the community held by players who had access to a locked forum where they brought the concerns from each of their respective profession forums.

still, for some reason ranger always sucked in that game.

regardless. sony has official forums and were able to organize it...

nm, i think i'm going to post this idea in the sanitarium forums.

[Healers Wisper]

Andrew thank you for comming out and talking to us. You and Gaile are great and I can't agree with your post here more. I find it rediculous that people can say what they say in this , and other, forums about thepeople who work with you and for ANet. I love the product you guys put out as guild wars is one of the best games I have ever play, and one of the only games I have stuck around after completeing.

I know i have had complaints but I have always tried to keep them in the contex of complaints not personal attacks. I hated the Soul reaping nerf and tried to offer suggestions for changing it and I know you guys listened but came up with a different, and I think perfectly good, alternative. I have rarely been let down by updates released by your team and I understand how trying a customer/community service job can be.

Just know that the majority of people out here appritiate the hard work you, Gaile and the developers put into this game and into the future GW2. I personally hope that you keep talking to this community and people learn that the "targets" of their hateful posts are people even if you can't hear their voice or see their face, and that you deserve respect.

Thank you again and cudos for posting a thread that needed to be posted!!!

[Angel Netherborn]

Originally Posted by bart

I think everybody is forgetting that Blizzard has a lot more staff than Anet. Now i'm one who believes that WoW is a better game in every aspect except maybe graphics. The reason for this is not because of quality its because of quantity. Blizzard has a bigger budget. Blizzard has more staff. Blizzard is bigger than Anet.

I feel with the success of GW Anet should have moved forward. Take it things to the next level. However imo they have remained stagnant. Thus i feel the only way for Anet to produce the goods is to become bigger.

Eh? And how are you proposing they get bigger? By charging you a monthly access fee?

The OP's post is a reflection of how the CRs are really feeling. Probably really stressed out. But as mentioned, it's not going to change anything. People who are sympathetic will remain sympathetic. And the people who normally demand things will still continue to demand things in a way they are always demanding them. This is just a stressed out I-almost-can't-take-it-anymoe post, so I do feel sympathetic. But since it was already acknowledged that it is usually upset people who post, then obviously, rudeness and demands from upset people are to be expected.

[Bread Fan]

The bottom line is that there has been no PvP representation. The moans in this thread reflect that. I was under the impression that CR views all aspects of the game but that is not the case.

Anet chose to release a game which had PvP and PvE and I as a paying customer felt neglected as a PvP player as did many others. Regardless of where the majority of income is coming from be it PvE they still should of had some involvement into PvP communication.

The whole game revolves around skill balancing and that is judged upon PvP. Many man hours were wasted upon hero battles and comedic ladder. I think Anet needs a revamp of management and I bet it will happen for the sake of the company. Problem is a lot of customers have already left and lost faith.

[BSSuperman]

I think that it may be useful to start a thread or poll requesting the PvP community exactly what do they expect from CR and Anet. As this thread has been hijacked several times by the PvP community saying that they do not have representation in the Community by the CR members, perhaps in a constructive manner this could be addressed by a poll. Rather than a undirected tantrum asking for heads to roll and ragequitting and saying 'we've lost faith with Anet.'

(sorry for grammer Im supposed to be working and dont have time to properly construct the sentences - but essentially Im trying to suggest a new thread for PvP'ers to ask Anet for representation as evidently they feel a little bit left out in the cold)

[Bread Fan]

It won't matter for the CR have posted only a small handful of times in the PvP forums. We get fed bullshit and then unheard of for months. It's way to late for any changes to be made. Damage is done. Riverside seems to be the only place to get any acknowledgement from the CR.

go figure...

[Moa Bird Cultist]

Well, what can I say? I'm a PvE player. I choose however, not to be ignorant of PvP. The lack of a PvP CM is a fair point, and my opinion on RitSpike is that it needs to go, now. But is this really the place for it? Anyway, I've been playing for 2 years now and have over 30 characters across 3 accounts. I don't like everything Anet has ever done over these 2 years, but it is plainly obvious to see that the good outweighs the bad, no matter how late it may come. Can you imagine GW without reconnects now? Certainly a case of better late than never.

What I really want to say is this: Gaile, Andrew, Isiah and the rest of the GW team are just as human as the rest of us. Not one of them is a god and none of them can give us a perfect game overnight. They'll make mistakes, get up and try again and thats what makes them so good. They don't deserve to be demonised simply because issues of game balance cannot be fixed overnight.

The concept that there is no balance in PvE also needs debunking once and for all. If there were no balance in PvE, then why nerf several PvE only skills? Why return Spiteful Spirit to 15 energy on the grounds of it being the most powerful skill in PvE? If there is supposed to be no balance in PvE then why is PvE subject to exactly the same rules as PvP? And 'Anet r lazyz' is not a decent answer.

Getting back to the original issue brought up by Andrew of people expecting to be able to demand things from Anet. I agree, this has to stop, as all it serves for is to sour already strained community relations. I'll admit, I may have been guilty of this on one occasion, but if people could see their mistakes coming, they wouldn't make them in the 1st place... But my personal mistakes aside, credit where it's due, it must take some guts to take an issue like this head on. The single worst thing about this game is the attitude prevalent in a lot of the community, that is to say, the demanders, the anti PvX crowds and anyone posting in an entirely selfish manner, (ie; thinking only of themselves and how they enjoy the game. Yes, it's important, but so is the satisfaction of millions of people besides yourselves.)

Above all, you guys deserve medals for your patience. I know my praise won't fall on deaf ears, because I know you care about this game, I've been in and around it for long enough now to know that much and because, frankly, I care about it too. So to reiterate what the silent majority never have the opportunity to say: Thanks. A thanks for every second I've spent in game. You know, that's about nine million thank-yous, just from me... But seriously, thanks a lot. I wouldn't have all the friends I do today if it weren't for this game.

[Auron of Neon]

Originally Posted by Moa Bird Cultist

What I really want to say is this: Gaile, Andrew, Isiah and the rest of the GW team are just as human as the rest of us. Not one of them is a god and none of them can give us a perfect game overnight. They'll make mistakes, get up and try again and thats what makes them so good. They don't deserve to be demonised simply because issues of game balance cannot be fixed overnight.

Uh... duh? Food for thought; every single CR in the world is human. Every single CR makes mistakes. However, if you've got an entire community of people complaining (the PvPers) you aren't making mistakes, you're screwing up epically.

I'm not sure how much of it is Andrew and Gaile, and how much is ANet; but either way, it's a problem that needs fixing. Two PvE reps and no PvP reps just isn't acceptable if you're advertising that Guild Wars has PvP; hire a PvP rep... at the minimum. If cost is an issue, split it 50/50; a PvP rep and a PvE rep.

As it stands, the lack of community discussion and information relays between ANet and the community is... frustrating? Nah... it's infuriating. Imagine a world where Andrew and Gaile were both PvP reps and never listened or gave solid answers about PvE; "Uh... you want harder areas? Take your armor off or something, that'll make it harder." "Are we working on auction house? Uh... let's talk about GvG instead..." I'd bet many *more* people would be flaming pissed and complaining if that were the case.

In conclusion... the problem is obvious. The solution is equally obvious. Why isn't the issue being rectified?

[Moa Bird Cultist]

You missed the point. These things take time. Hiring a PvP rep will also take time, if indeed, that is the solution. But expecting these things to happen immediately is exactly what Andrew is speaking out against. Ultimately, it's in NCsoft's hands, not ArenaNet nor Andrew and Gaile's. But I wonder, with everyone screaming for a PvP rep, what exactly are they supposed to know that Gaile or Andrew don't?

[DreamWind]

Originally Posted by Moa Bird Cultist

Ultimately, it's in NCsoft's hands, not ArenaNet nor Andrew and Gaile's. But I wonder, with everyone screaming for a PvP rep, what exactly are they supposed to know that Gaile or Andrew don't?

Is it really in NCsofts hands? That brings up an interesting point. If Anet wants to be a good company they should have thought of this problem ages ago. Didn't they know "building the game from the ground up as a competitive game" was going to bring problems if there was nobody to even talk to the competitive players?

As for Gaile and Andrew, I said earlier that I don't mind them. But we need somebody who has knowledge of ladder PvP to see the balance problems and other issues facing the gametype. That is something we do not have... I am a bit surprised that we don't have this already, because PvP has been in clear decline for a year now at least. I believe you can't just get anybody to come in and say "oh we know whats wrong"...we need people who have experience in what is wrong and be able to advocate for us with the devs if the gametype is going to be any good.

[Bread Fan]

Originally Posted by Moa Bird Cultist

You missed the point. These things take time. Hiring a PvP rep will also take time, if indeed, that is the solution. But expecting these things to happen immediately is exactly what Andrew is speaking out against. Ultimately, it's in NCsoft's hands, not ArenaNet nor Andrew and Gaile's. But I wonder, with everyone screaming for a PvP rep, what exactly are they supposed to know that Gaile or Andrew don't?

No see you missed the point. PvP has been ignored from the get go. Perhaps you have tried RA but I can tell you have not played any high end PvP. It is Anet's obligation to have PvP representation if they are going to have a PvE rep. Andrew and Gaile don't know squat when it comes to PvP because they chose not to play it, their loss as well as ours.

We don't expect things to happen immediately but months upon a year of neglect is uncalled for. What gets me is how they boast that GW is has fantastic PvP and even have huge tournaments yet they have no representation. crazy...

[bart]

Originally Posted by Angel Netherborn

Eh? And how are you proposing they get bigger? By charging you a monthly access fee?

There are other ways such as coming up with more expansions like GW:EN for example. Anet also opened the online store where u can buy character slots and other stuff as well if i'm not mistaken. So use the money from there to grow. i mean if u're lacking in one area that is holding you back shouldn't u find some way to improve that area and make it ur strength instead of just saying "sigh... we're just a small company we'll never be able to compete with the big guns. lets just stay the way we are until we are bought out".

[Alias_X]

That is what you are getting paid to do. Make the game perfect for 3.5million people.

Make it happen.

[Moa Bird Cultist]

Bread fan, this is a little late, but tell me, are you psychic? Because if you're not then I don't see how you can tell what kinds of play I've engaged in and observed. You provide no evidence and make accusations based on paperweight facts. I said I'm primarily a PvE player and you took that to mean that I'm exactly the same as the other 2 million PvE players who in the opinion of a lot of the PvP crowd are automatically smack talking idiots. Sorry, but you can play both, you know. That aside, the lack of PvP representation is not what this thread's supposed to be about. I'm not denying that it's a problem, I'm simply saying that this isn't what this thread is for, because if this becomes a thread simply demanding representation for PvP, then none of you have acknowledged or respected the original post. If you want a better deal for PvP, there are far better ways than trying to hijack a thread, especially one warning against making demands of Anet.

And nobody's actually answered my question either, it's just been skipped around. Ok, so Gaile and Andrew are lacking in PvP knowledge according to 99% of the PvP community. Examples? Aside from isolated examples of AoE definition and whatnot, where is the hard proof? Exactly. Neither you nor I actually know exactly how they play the game, so lets not make assumptions based purely on one or two verbal blunders from a year ago.

[dargon]

Originally Posted by Moa Bird Cultist

And nobody's actually answered my question either, it's just been skipped around. Ok, so Gaile and Andrew are lacking in PvP knowledge according to 99% of the PvP community. Examples? Aside from isolated examples of AoE definition and whatnot, where is the hard proof? Exactly. Neither you nor I actually know exactly how they play the game, so lets not make assumptions based purely on one or two verbal blunders from a year ago.

Not to mention that making a claim like '99% of the PvP community thinks Gaile and Andrew are ____'. It's impossible to say that 99% of anything thinks ___ right now, because there is no formal way of polling the entire GW population. It would be more accurate (but still wrong) to say that 99% of the PvP on Guru thinks Gaile and Andrew are ____'. Unfortunately, when compared against the total population in Guild Wars, that number of people is just a drop in the bucket because most people do NOT login to forums and post. If they have a complaint, they tend to just accept it and move on, if they really like something, they might mention it to a friend or two but again, very rarely announce it the world.

Just remember, that 87.6% of all statistics are made up.

[around]

Gaile Grey (bless her) once PvP'ed around Factions. She played a R/Mo healer who thought she had poisoned her own team.

This sort of thing doesn't exactly fill people with confidence.

[fenix]

Originally Posted by Moa Bird Cultist

And nobody's actually answered my question either, it's just been skipped around. Ok, so Gaile and Andrew are lacking in PvP knowledge according to 99% of the PvP community. Examples? Aside from isolated examples of AoE definition and whatnot, where is the hard proof? Exactly. Neither you nor I actually know exactly how they play the game, so lets not make assumptions based purely on one or two verbal blunders from a year ago.

We're playing that game huh? Well okay then. Lets look up the guild rank of ZoS, the guild that Andrew is the leader of. Oh wait...that's right. They aren't on the ladder. That's odd. For someone who apparently GvG's for 4 days of the week, you'd think he'd have a top 1000 guild. I mean, currently all you need to get into the top 1000 is 7-8 wins. If you add a few losses, you could get there with maybe 12 wins and 3 losses.

Oh well. I guess that counts Andrew out. What about Gaile? Well, she hasn't mentioned guilds...and being that most PvP requires (or at least would be desired) being in a guild, then I guess she mustn't PvP much either.

What's that? Your argument is nullified? For someone so confident, you sure don't know much.

[lyra_song]

Originally Posted by fenix

We're playing that game huh? Well okay then. Lets look up the guild rank of ZoS, the guild that Andrew is the leader of. Oh wait...that's right. They aren't on the ladder. That's odd. For someone who apparently GvG's for 4 days of the week, you'd think he'd have a top 1000 guild. I mean, currently all you need to get into the top 1000 is 7-8 wins. If you add a few losses, you could get there with maybe 12 wins and 3 losses.

Oh well. I guess that counts Andrew out. What about Gaile? Well, she hasn't mentioned guilds...and being that most PvP requires (or at least would be desired) being in a guild, then I guess she mustn't PvP much either.

What's that? Your argument is nullified? For someone so confident, you sure don't know much.

Guilds with Anet members playing on the ladder? Can you say manipulation and unfair advantage?

Read this page:

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...ibleguilds.php

ZoS' position on the ladder is irrelevant to Andrew's own PvP experience.
Spearmen are barely in the top 1000, would you say they are a sucky in PvP as well?

I have personally PvP'ed with Andrew but I can't personally vouch for his combat prowess (he's a monk afterall, i wasnt paying attention to who was healing me), we didnt lose however. He did have some losing players banned after they shouted very very obscene things in local chat after they lost. Now that was funny.

While I do know for a fact that she doesnt PvP much, and i think we all know that, deducting from that "evidence" that its because she doesnt mention guilds much is a lack of logic beyond that makes me sigh.

Gaile poisoning her own teammates stems from back in the day when you could target your own teammates and Gaile used a poison arrow build (IIRC the story).

[Turbobusa]

why not give players the link to the threads where are debated skill changes on the login screen? then you would not only have angry people posting.